I struggled to find a job after working at Microsoft, Meta, and Apple — until I embraced AI and looked beyond Big Tech
Lee Givens, Jr., a seasoned product manager with over 15 years of experience at tech giants like Microsoft, Meta, and Apple, recently shared his candid journey through a challenging job search that ultimately led him to a rewarding position at Woven by Toyota. Givens began his career at Microsoft in 2011, where he navigated through layoffs and internal transitions before seeking new opportunities in 2020. His decision to leave Microsoft for a role at Meta, where he worked on augmented reality products, was driven by a desire for new challenges and better compensation. However, after facing disarray within the team and a series of layoffs at Unity, where he served as a global product lead, Givens found himself unexpectedly jobless in May 2023.
In the face of adversity, Givens took a proactive approach by immersing himself in artificial intelligence (AI) technologies, learning frameworks like PyTorch and Modular’s MAX. This strategic pivot not only enhanced his skill set but also positioned him favorably in a rapidly evolving job market. After a brief stint at Apple as a contract engineering program manager, Givens encountered challenges related to job security and location preferences, ultimately leading him to broaden his job search. His perseverance paid off when he received an opportunity from Toyota, which was willing to accommodate his preference to work from Seattle. After a rigorous interview process, Givens secured a role as a staff product manager, enjoying a six-figure salary and a work environment that aligns with his values.
Reflecting on his career, Givens emphasizes the importance of adaptability in the face of technological shifts and the necessity of continuous learning. He advises against getting pigeonholed in specific roles or companies, recognizing that his initial desire to remain at Apple nearly cost him a valuable opportunity at Toyota. Givens’ story serves as an inspiring reminder that embracing change, being open to new industries, and investing in personal development can lead to fulfilling career paths, even amidst uncertainty.
Lee Givens, Jr.
Lee Givens, Jr.
Lee Givens, Jr.
worked at Microsoft
, Meta, and Apple over a 15-year span.
After leaving Microsoft and Meta, he lost his contract job at Apple and struggled to find work.
He said learning about AI and exploring opportunities outside Big Tech helped him land a new role.
This as-told-to essay is based on a conversation with Lee Givens, Jr., a 57-year-old product manager in Seattle who works at Woven by Toyota, a subsidiary of Toyota Motor Corporation. Business Insider has verified his employment with documentation. This essay has been edited for length and clarity.
I’d worked at Big Tech companies for more than a decade, but a year ago, I found myself in the middle of a
humbling job search
.
I started working for Microsoft in 2011 as a product manager, but in 2014, I was among thousands of
employees who were laid off
. I never actually left Microsoft — I was given 60 days to find a new role internally and successfully moved into a program manager position in a different department.
By 2020, my job at Microsoft had become somewhat boring, in part because there was a lot of legal and compliance work. I also thought I needed a new challenge and more money.
I left Microsoft for a new opportunity, but looking back, I maybe shouldn’t have been so quick to leave. I’m now working at Toyota and am happy with my role, but I had to endure some ups and downs to get here.
Moving on from Microsoft and Meta
When I started looking for something new in 2020, Meta was actively recruiting. I
decided to leave Microsoft
for a product marketing manager role there, where I worked on an augmented reality glasses product. Some of the product plans went awry, and it felt like the team was in disarray.
In December 2021, after a little more than a year at Meta, I transitioned to a global product lead role at the software development company Unity.
Things didn’t ultimately work out there either. As I searched for work in recent years — and faced a challenging job market — I sometimes found myself thinking that I shouldn’t have left Microsoft.
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Diving into AI after a layoff
Things at Unity seemed promising at first, but as the tech industry shifted toward AI, our researchers began to be poached left and right. We didn’t have the budget to keep them happy.
I still believed in Unity and really thought it had potential. However, in May 2023, a few days after getting married and honeymooning in Italy, I learned I’d been laid off.
This was the third layoff of my career, but it was the first time I had nothing in the pipeline to help me transition to my next role.
I decided to take some time to learn as much as I could about AI — and the basics of how AI frameworks like
PyTorch
and
Modular’s MAX
worked. My goal was to understand AI so I could better communicate with the engineers working on the technology.
I also actively applied for jobs and reached out to recruiters. Apple was one of my top targets, and I applied to every AI-related role I could find at the company.
Leaving Apple and learning how to find a job
After a few months of job searching, a recruiter contacted me about a contract opportunity at Apple for an engineering program manager role, which I started in September 2023.
My contract was extended every three months, and my manager told me that the company was attempting to transition me to a full-time role. It was my understanding that contractors in my group couldn’t stay beyond a year, so I figured I’d either be converted or out of a job.
As the one-year mark approached, I was told that a senior leader wanted
everyone on my team
to be based in Cupertino, California, where
Apple is headquartered
. My understanding was that my chances of landing a full-time role would increase dramatically if I moved to Cupertino.
But my wife and I didn’t want to leave Seattle. We had recently bought a home in the area, and she had a job there. By the time my contract with Apple ended in September 2024, I had started my next job search.
I found the job market to be extremely challenging
For six months, I had numerous conversations and interviews, and then a lot of “Nope, you didn’t get the job” messages.
I’d never had that problem before. Throughout my career, I had almost never actively sought a job. Most of the jobs I’d had came through friends or recruiters who actively pursued me. It was a humbling experience of putting out hundreds of résumés and not hearing back.
Fortunately, I found some part-time consulting gigs as I looked for work. I’d been good at investing — doing well enough that I could almost retire — so I wasn’t too worried about cash. My wife also had a fairly high-paying job.
Still, we had college expenses for two kids, and my wife was thinking about starting her own business. If we were to make this work financially, I felt I’d have to step up. This motivated me to find a job.
For months, I focused on getting back into Apple
I eventually decided to become more open to other opportunities. I started entertaining LinkedIn messages from recruiters I would’ve previously ignored.
One of those messages came from Toyota. The original job was based in Palo Alto, but the company was flexible and agreed to move the role to Seattle.
Lee Givens, Jr.
Lee Givens, Jr.
In April, after about two-and-a-half months of interviews, I joined the company as a staff product manager in the company’s Woven by Toyota subsidiary.
I have a six-figure salary, and my total compensation is much higher than what I was earning at Meta and Apple.
I definitely think taking the time to learn more about AI helped me land the job, and that knowledge is driving the main work I’m doing now.
Reflections on my career journey
One of the biggest takeaways from my career journey is that when there’s a major
technological shift — such as the rise of the internet or AI — you have to reinvent yourself. You need to dive deep into the technology to really understand it.
Another lesson: Don’t get pigeonholed. I had my heart set on staying at Apple, and I nearly missed out on a great opportunity. Be open to new industries — it could actually work out.
Additionally, don’t rush to switch jobs. Before I left Microsoft in 2020, I really clicked there and felt comfortable — and I think I maybe should’ve stuck around, even if part of me wanted to try something new. At the same time, leaving Microsoft set me on a path to learning more about AI, which I believe will serve me well in my career.
I’m happy with my current role. Toyota’s culture, legacy, and focus align closely with my approach to work. The subsidiary I work for is much smaller than Microsoft, Meta, and Apple, which has made it easier for me to make an impact and gain visibility with company leaders.
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